The following are the 7th, 8th and 9th of 12 Scenarios of common strategies to achieve financial independence and retire early with Jassen for a new book we are writing.
Copy the seventh Scenario Two 5% Down Payment Nomads with Stocks into your Real Estate Financial Planner™:
If you believe this is an error and should be available to copy, please contact support and include a link to this page.
Or, copy the eighth Scenario Ten 5% Down Payment Nomads with No Stocks or Bonds into your Real Estate Financial Planner™:
If you believe this is an error and should be available to copy, please contact support and include a link to this page.
Or, copy the ninth Scenario Renting with Stocks, Buy Ten 20% DP Rental Properties into your Real Estate Financial Planner™:
If you believe this is an error and should be available to copy, please contact support and include a link to this page.
Check out the other parts of this series:
- Part 1: FIRE with Jassen Bowman - Scenarios 1 and 2
- Part 2: FIRE with Jassen Bowman - Scenarios 3 and 4
- Part 3: FIRE with Jassen Bowman - Scenarios 5 and 6
- Part 5: FIRE with Jassen Bowman - Scenarios 10, 11 and 12
Or, check out the transcript of the video below.
Transcript of Video
Jassen: Welcome to another exciting episode of Real Estate Financial Planner™ Scenarios. My name is Jassen Bowman, and with zero ado, I'd like to introduce the creator of The Real Estate Financial Planner™ software, James Orr.
James: Haha okay. Uh good morning. This is James Orr. These intros get more over the top every single time we do one of these.
Jassen: And there's more to come.
James: There's more to come, Huh? Well, let's see how many, how many of these things we can get through today so that we can limit the number of times this gets progressively crazier. So. Oh Man.
Jassen: Absolutely. So, just as a real quick recap, we're, we're going to be talking about some additional, uh, Scenarios that are based on a common set of fixed assumptions, uh, so that we can make some apples to apples comparisons about the long term um financial net worth and ability to, to hit a, an early retirement Goal using different, uh, investing Scenarios. Some stocks, some bonds, some, uh, with real estate, without real estate, with, with renting your personal residence or owning your, your personal residence. Uh, and, and I definitely would encourage everybody that's watching or listening to this to go back and watch the first couple in this series because some of the options that you're going to see in The Real Estate Financial Planner™, as James runs through the Scenario, uh, you know, in a couple of the previous classes, he went into greater detail, for example, about the options on the, uh, on a Property and what all those options mean. So we're not going to delve into exactly what those are today, uh, in, in that kind of a detail. We're going to jump straight into our next set of Scenarios.
James: Yeah. And what Jassen is basically saying is we're not going to try to re-cover what we've already covered in the previous ones. And so if you don't mind, Jassen, what I would like to do is take a moment or two and tell people where they can find the previous ones, like which Scenarios are covered in which part, and then they can go search for the parts. So part one, which was the first day that we did these, we covered renting where you're, you're living in a Property that you do not own, you're paying rents and you're investing 20 percent of your income and you're kind of spreading it out between 60 percent invested in stocks at an eight percent return per year and 40 percent invested at bonds um at a three percent return per year. And so that was Scenario one, Scenario one and Scenario two, we covered in part one the first day that we did the recording and the Scenario two was um, instead of renting, you're buying a Property, putting five percent down owner occupying it, living in it, and doing a 60 percent invested in stocks and 40% invest in bonds.
James: So day one we basically covered renting versus buying, doing a 60, 40 split stocks and bonds. Is that, is that pretty much how you remember it? And then part two, the second recording we did a, we did two very different ones. We did renting where you invested 100 percent of your savings, 20 percent of your income in stocks and stocks got eight percent return. And so that was a, the basically the first Scenario what we'd like to call Scenario three in part two and then the Scenario four we did renting a but you actually buy a single 20 percent down payment Property and you invest the rest in stocks. So as soon as you save up enough to buy a 20 percent down rental, you actually do that. You still are renting yourself, but you own a rental Property and you're doing the invest the rest of it invested in stocks. And so that was day two, we covered two different Scenarios and we and we kind of go back and compare them to the previous ones as well so you can kind of see how all four of those compare to each other.
James: And then, because the other two weren't fun enough, we actually went and did two more Scenarios yesterday for the previous recording, uh, yesterday we covered buying three, five percent down payment Properties. Two of them we, we converted to rentals and we invested 60 percent in stocks and 40 percent in bonds of any extra money that we had. And then the last one we did yesterday was five percent down owner occupant Property, uh, where we are not renting. Basically we're living in a owner occupant Property ourselves and we're investing the rest in stocks. And so we kind of went through some of those. And Jassen, you and I talked very briefly after the recording yesterday and one of the things we kind of mentioned to each other was it was surprising to see that, uh, you know, how quickly some of these hit financial independence, the ability to retire early, uh, where we would have thought the other one would have been a little bit better in some ways.
James: So today we're going to continue on. We're going to do a 2 five percent down Properties. We're going to buy one move in, live there for a year, and then converted it to a rental. What we've been calling the Nomad strategy and we talked about that a lot in detail yesterday. Um, and then we're going to invest the rest of it in stocks. That's what the first one we're going to do. And then we're going to cover a couple other ones depending on time. So Jassen, if you don't mind, let me jump right into the first one for today and then we can go from there. Okay. So if you're looking at a screen, all the assumptions are the same. If you remember what Jassen said at the beginning is true. We're trying to standardize all of our assumptions so people are making the same amount of money per year. They're saving the same percent of their income, 20 percent. Um, and you know, we're, we're kind of using the same Property as a standardized Property to do this, to try to eliminate all of the variation except for what we're trying to show the differences of. So the difference in the investing strategy itself, but all the other stuff is standardized.
James: So for this one, we basically have the stock market Account. Again, we start with $30,000 in it and it earns eight percent and we're going to buy a five percent down home. It's a $200,000 Property going to put five percent down and move into the Property. Um, and then we're going to have the same paycheck we have before $5,500 per month is what we're doing where we're saving about $1,100 at the very beginning and that doesn't increase with inflation over time. But then this Rule is the Rule that really talk about, and that is buy this Property right here. We'll drill into it. So basically it's running for the whole Scenario. We're running it for this Scenario only. We are buying that five percent down payment Property that we talked about yesterday, uh, stocks. So that's the Account we're looking at for the down payment. And then we are saying go ahead and buy these when we have a no threshold, no, uh, no additional cash buffer.
James: So we're not saying you need to have a significant cash buffer in order to buy these with this particular Rule. Um, and we were basically saying by two of them, so buy one Property right away, wait a year. And as long as after a year you have enough for your down payment and your closing costs, you're going to buy another one. So this kind of Scenario is buying two Properties, buy one, live there for a year as an owner occupant, then convert it to a rental and buy another one to move into. And then we live in that Property for the rest of the entire Scenario. So we only have one rental, but we bought two Properties by owner occupying them each at their own time.
James: That makes sense?
Jassen: Yup. Great Plan.
James: Yeah. So let's go see how buying basically one rental and one Property that you live in and then investing the rest in stocks does, because that's really what we just said.
James: So let me go pull up the Charts for that one. This is a two, five percent down with stocks. All right. So Jassen, do you want to start where we go through all of the other ones compared or do you want to go through this one just by itself?
Jassen: I think it's more educational to go through. This one by itself highlight some of the, uh, the more interesting Charts and then do the comparison.
James: Okay. So in this one, I mean you can see the net worth. We basically started off with about $30,000, that's where we started, uh, in their savings Account. And by the end of this we are at, oops, zoom. Here we are at a $45,000,000 in non inflation adjusted dollars by the time we get 60 years in the future, buying basically one rental Property living in a Property and investing the rest in stocks. Does that surprise you at all?
Jassen: Uh, no, but that's also because, you know, seeing a lot of these Scenarios, what I think is going to be very interesting is comparing that number to, I'm a couple of the Scenarios that we talked about yesterday actually, that it's going to be very interesting to viewers.
James: Yeah, I think so too. And so basically, um, if you adjust for inflation, that's like having $7.7 million dollars in today's dollars, but 60 years in the future. So you have the spending power of having almost $7.7 million dollars, uh, if you do this plan and you're getting a fixed 8 percent return in the stock market and all the assumptions we talked about yesterday for the Property, three percent appreciation and three percent rent appreciation.
Jassen: Alright. Are you going to go through the, the, the individual Property Charts since there is a rental Property here?
James: Sure. If you want to let me do it, it's really only one rental Property so we can go ahead and look at this. Do you want me to do anything else from this page? Do you want me show you when you buy the properties?
Jassen: Uh, yeah, that's probably a good one.
James: Yeah. So this one's pretty easy. We buy the first Property in month one, that's the one we move into. And then exactly 12 months later, oops, in month 13, we buy our second Property, we convert the first one to a rental, we move into the second one and that's all we bought. We basically have two Properties in this particular Scenario. So let's take a look at the Properties.
James: So appreciation rate really easy. It's going to be three percent for both of them. So each one of them is appreciating at three percent per year. Let's take a look at how much appreciation we're getting per month for both the Properties. You can kind of see those here. I'm like, basically each one is appreciating, oh, it's inflation adjusted too. So, um, if we don't adjust for inflation, the amount that they are increasing each month is increasing, but if you adjust for inflation, it's actually pretty interesting lesson is that that same dollar amount in inflation adjusted dollars is what we're seeing each month growing on that Property. Does that make sense? Yep. Yep. So if we turn off raw dollars, we show those, you could see that we have two Properties, the blue one and the red one, and they're both growing at about the same rate because they're the same property essentially. And you can think about this like you go pick a neighborhood you like, you buy your first Property and then, you know, a year later you buy another Property, same exact model in that neighborhood. And so it's the same essentially the same Property, uh, not the exact same Property, but the same type of Property, same price, same characteristics.
Jassen: And, and you've actually had clients effectively doing that, uh, by uh, buying, um, uh, from one particular builder here in northern Colorado buying new construction Properties and then they buy multiple Properties if not the same floor plan and model, but at least from the same builder so that they're, uh, they're very close together. Um, similar quality construction, similar pricing, um, year over year. It's the, it's the similar price in terms of the inflated is inflation adjusted price.
James: Yeah. As, as Nomads, I've had clients do this where they bought a Property for a brand new new construction Property. They moved out of that one after a year into a totally separate different Property in another neighborhood. And then when they were ready to buy their third Property, they went back to the same builder that they bought first time and bought the exact same model again in a different neighborhood. Basically the new neighborhood where that builder was building. And so they bought the exact same model twice in two different neighborhoods, you know, two years apart.
Jassen: Got It.
James: Yep. So I've had people do that. I've also had a client, literally buy the exact same floor plan of a house resale, um, you know, like a 30 or 40 year old house across the street from it. So they, they were living in a Property, they knew that the neighbor next door across the street was going to sell their Property. They, uh, wanted to get another rental. And so they literally moved across the street into another Property and converted the one they were living into and rental and fixed up the new one that they bought
Jassen: That. That definitely takes out some of the logistical concerns that I have with going from, from Salt Lake City to Colorado.
James: Yes it does. Yeah. I'm going to point out another feature of this Chart. So let's say, Jassen, you were looking at this appreciation Chart and you know, you're thinking, well, I have two Properties. What is the total amount of appreciation I'm seeing? You can see that in one of two ways. Number one is you could stack these Charts so that it shows you the sum of the Charts and top each other, and then it will show you the sum when you kind of mouse over, it tells you, for example, this one is a $1152.12 of appreciation between the two for that year. So you can kind of see a Chart that way.
James: Or you can go over to Scenarios and tick out. Um, I think appreciation here and maybe it doesn't have appreciation on this one, some other Charts actually will show you the sum of things, but this one just shows you the two of them stacked on top each other.
Jassen: Do you have a total appreciation Chart on owned Property?
James: I was just thinking, I don't think I do.
Jassen: You have so many Charts.
James: Yeah, I know that's the challenge. And so, uh, I don't think I do, but I can go ahead and add it. So if someone really needs that, let me know and I can add a Chart. I mean it's really just creating another Chart. It's not that bad. So yeah, we can go do that, but kind of going and looking at some of these other ones you can go look at, you know, some different things on here, like cash flow is kind of an important one, how much cash flow you're seeing on the Property. And this is pretty interesting because one of them were living in so it has basically our costs of living there, it's this negative amount is what our expenses are for doing it and pay off the mortgage.
James: Then this is basically your taxes and insurance left on the Property. Um, but this one we actually have income on and so the first year we're living there, it's negative, but then as soon as you move out in month 13, it actually ends up being slightly positive cash flow.
James: So you ended up making about $33 per month on this and it does not include cash flow from depreciation. So this kind of shows you what that is. And then of course when you pay off the Property here, your loan goes away and your cash flow significantly improves, but it's stair-steps up until year 60. So you can kinda see both of those.
Jassen: It's a really interesting Chart right there with both Properties on there and seeing the impact of, of the, uh, the mortgage payoff. And this also illustrates the difference, very clearly, I think about, um, a rental versus an owner occupied Property.
James: Yeah. Let's say you're feeding one and the other one, you're actually getting income from. Here's the interesting thing. If we stack those such that year, they're kind of adding on top of each other. You could see that we're still waiting negative because the cost of living in the Property is pretty high compared to how much rent we're getting until you get to this point where you pay off the first Property and then it pops positive and the rental is more than supporting the Property that you're living in and you can kind of see now the sum.
Jassen: So basically what you could, one, one way that I would look at this is, is that even with only one rental, just one after you pay off the mortgages on both Properties, what you're seeing here is that your entire housing cost of the owner occupied Property, the one that you live in is being paid for by the one rental Property.
James: Yeah, that's actually true. That's kind of interesting way to look at that. But if you're doing Nomad eventually when you pay off the first Property, it should be enough to pay for this one. And if we adjust for inflation you can kind of see those numbers, in a slightly different way too. Oh yeah, it's definitely pretty interesting. Uh, so let's take a look at some other Charts here. We can look at cap rate over time if you want to. We'll just pull that one up just for fun. So turn off the one that we're not renting. You could see the cap rate and it increases originally. It starts off, we first get it, it's about a 6.3 cap. Um, and then over time it actually increases because the value of the Property and rent syncs up. So let's see here, cash flow from depreciation.
James: So this is an interesting one. Just shows you how much cash flow you're getting on the Property we're renting from the depreciation benefits so that what the cash flow you're getting, the amount of money you're giving back on your tax return, um at that effective tax rate on the Scenario page, uh, when you take into Account the tax benefits of this Property. So it's about $77 per month for the first 27 and a half years and then it goes away.
James: Yup. Uh, let's see here. Cash flow with depreciation. So this Chart shows you the cash flow adding in the depreciation as well.
James: So that shows you that cash on cash return on investment. So here's an interesting one where it shows you the cash on cash ROI of your Property. And so you could see when you, when you first start renting it, this particular Property does not have an amazing cash on cash.
James: It's about three point three percent cash on cash return. You put five percent down and you're making a little bit of money on it, but the cash on cash return increases pretty significantly over time. And that's what you're seeing. Uh, let's see. Cashout Refi equity shows you how much equity you have in each one of the Properties. So, uh, you know, when you're, and this is based on 75 percent loan to value Cashout Refi.
James: So if you look at it for a while, you actually have negative amounts when you don't quite have 25 percent equity in the Property because we put five percent down to buy these. And so you could see that the cash on the cash out refi equity balance is negative until you get to the point where you actually have, um, some, some money that you could pull out there. Let's see here. Closing costs, we won't look at that. Cumulative cash flow. You could look at how much cash flow you've seen, where it continues to sum the amount up over time. And so you can see on this particular Property, uh, over the course of 60 years, you made $1.6 million dollars in cash flow cumulative over that time period.
James: That makes sense?
James: Uh, you can look at a Property management, how much you paid out on your Property manager fee. This is the scary one if you're looking at how much you paid to your Property manager. So if you own a Property management business in this particular case, you made about $290,000 in fees by managing this Property for somebody over that period of time.
Jassen: Another way to look at this Chart in my opinion, would be over the course of a 60 year time horizon, you spent $290,000, uh, in order to not have the 2:00 AM toilet clogs phone call.
James: Yeah. When you're not, in theory, uh, I will tell you, as someone who's owned a lot of Properties, I can't remember ever getting a 2:00 AM phone call, about a toilet clog. And nor would I ever receive a phone call at 2:00 AM because I don't have my phone by my bed. So if someone were to phone me at 2:00 AM my phone is downstairs on the charger. I would not even hear it ring because I only have it on vibrate anyway. So um in theory, yes, you're not giving a 2:00 AM kind of toilet, clogged, phone call. And of course, you educate your tenants ahead of time that if there's a water leak in the Property, shut off the water. And this is the name of the plumber to call if you have a real emergency for something like that. So, you know, we're a good Property management doing that. Uh, so you can take a look at that one.
James: We could just look at just raw equity in the Property. This doesn't take out that 75 percent. So you can see the equity. We have mortgage value and of course if we turn stacking on. Again, we can see the sum of both those as we buy them. And so between the two of them, it's like what $2,3 million dollars or so. And by the time we get to year 60 and see that.
James: Uh, you can look at gross operating income. I mean, these are all things you can drill down to and see on Properties we're not going to go into a lot of detail on these. Um, let's see here. For months remaining on the mortgage, you can kind of see those.
James: see rents, rent, depreciation rates, seller equity. I think those are probably the good highlights of this stuff. Anything you really want to see about your Property. I mean, if you want to see like, you know, your operating ratio or the number of months you've had this Property rented or the mortgage principal being paid or the mortgage payment total, you can go drill down and see that for any of these Charts, there's I don't know how many Charts here, 50 plus, so you can go to really drill into any of the Properties you can turn one on, put both of 'em on and really and look at it. So, um, I think that's good enough for what we're trying to do here.
Jassen: Oh, actually, let me ask you this question. You know, especially since you're the guy that wrote the software and you originally started creating this for, for your own personal real estate investing more than anything else. When you're running numbers for your own personal finances, what are the tables related to a Property? What are the Charts that are most important to you personally?
James: So I tend to look at high level stuff and then if I don't understand why things are showing up the way they do, I tend to drill down and I'll look at say, hey, why is this like this? And then I'll go try to find out, you know, oh so cash flow is made up of my, you know, my income on the Property. So I'll go check rents and you know, my vacancy and my maintenance, my mortgage expenses and stuff like that. And so I'll drill down to try to do that. But if I'm not doing that, the big picture ones I'm looking at usually net worth, which is overall Scenario net worth, cash flow on Properties which is a cash flow amounts on all the Properties in total. Or I can drill down and look at cash flow on individual ones, like let's say I want to see true cash flow.
James: So I like to look at that one because I like to see what the true cash flow is on all the Properties and individually, um, I like to look at a cash on cash return on investment. So I look at that one. Um, and I, I tend to look at the Goals. So if I know my Goal is to have, you know, whatever it is, $10,000 a month in passive income coming in. Um, I will look at how long it takes me to achieve that Goal. Um, or if I'm doing like the um, how long it's gonna take me to achieve financial independence, retire early kind of numbers. I can look at my combination of safe withdrawal rate and cash flows to find out when I will hit my target monthly income and retirement. So those are primarily the ones I like to look at. But of course, if I'm trying to analyze, you know, something specific about a Scenario, oh does this improve this part of this kind of strategy, then I will go drill down into those on a case by case basis. That help?
Jassen: Yeah. I think it's important for, for our viewers and listeners to get an idea of, of like how the, how the creator of the software is thinking about the application of it. So thanks for sharing that.
James: That's a really good point. And you know, at one point, one, one of the design iterations, kind of a little backstory, I had a most popular Charts button and that basically showed you the Charts that were loaded the most.
James: So every time that Chart got loaded, I would increment a little counter and I would show you the five most popular Scenario Charts, the five most popular Account Charts, the five most popular owned Property Charts as sort of like shortcuts to say, Hey, these are things we think you're going to want to see because that's what everyone else is looking at. Um, and you could just drill down and do that. Um, I don't have it included in this version, but it's really easy for me to add back if people really want to have that feature. So let's jump right to, um looking at a couple things with Scenarios, so I'm going to add in the other Scenarios that we were looking at and kind of compare net worth numbers and then I'll jump right over to the Goals and show you how long it takes in order to hit the, uh, the kind of like target monthly income and retirement for the stuff we're doing.
James: Is that okay?
James: Okay, cool. So we did a five percent down payment owner occupant with 60 40 stocks. I'm going to add that one to this Chart here. So going to turn this on so it does lines and we did this one. I know this one. I know. All right. What else did we do, Jassen? Five percent down. Owner occupied with stocks. I think we did that one right? And we did renting with 60/40 stocks and bonds I think. And what else did we do? Three, five percent down. Owner occupant, 60, 40. I think we covered that too.
Jassen: Yeah we did that one yesterday. There we go.
James: Okay. So I think that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. I think seven of them that we've done. So this shows you the different net worths, uh, for all of these ones. And instead of just showing you all in here, I'm going to just jump to month 720. We will do. Let's do it this way.
James: All right, so this shows you basically month 720 and compares the total net worth of all these. So if we kind of just mouse over, we can see the renting with 60 percent, 40 percent stocks and bonds. Uh, we ended up with $13.2 million dollars in net worth. The, uh, like owning a Property, investing 60/40 stocks and bonds, gave us $19,000,000 in net worth. Renting and doing 100 percent stocks was $29, million in net worth renting with stocks, but buying one 20 percent down payment Property was $34, million dollars in net worth, buying three Properties, three Nomad Properties where you kind of live with them for a year and then convert them to rentals and then doing 60, 40 bonds and stocks was $28, million in net worth, and then five percent down, owner occupant with stocks $39 million. Um, and then two five percent down, Nomad Properties of stocks was $45 million or so. Of the ones we've done so far, this one, the one that we've just covered now has the greatest net worth.
James: What do you think? Yeah. What, what do you think's gonna happen when we look at Goals? Do you think that we're going to see that this is the one that gets us to our Goal fastest? What do you. Which one do you think is going to help us achieve our Goal fastest, Jassen, do you think it's this one?
Jassen: Out of these? Uh, yeah. I would assume that this one's probably going to get us to Goal fastest.
James: It's interesting because this one, the three percent, five percent, the three, five percent down payment owner occupant one has three rental Properties whereas two rental Properties and one that we're living in.
Jassen: Right. But 60/40 stocks, bonds instead of 100 percent stocks.
James: All right, let's see. Moment of truth. What happens here? Alright, so if we look at all, whoops, this shows us our Goal Charts. Let's go through that to the table and see what happened here. So the one that we're just doing two, five percent down payment, Nomads with socks, took 367 months. Whereas the three, five percent down payment things but 60/40 stocks and bonds took 373 months. So this one was five or six months faster.
James: So we kind of talked about where the other ones stood yesterday, but the new strategy is five months faster, buying two down payments, two Properties. One where you live in, one is a rental, and then investing in stocks with the rest of your money actually gets you to your retirement in 30 years and seven months. So, Jassen, if you were 22 again and you started this plan, by the time you're 52, you could have enough money to retire.
Jassen: If only I had a time machine.
James: If only you had a time machine. So that's where this one is. Let's take a look at this. Let's do this a little different than we did. Um, I'm going to do. Let's see here. What one are we supposed to cover next?
Jassen: Uh, next one should be I thought it was a 10 Nomad Properties.
James: Is it 10? Okay, let's go pull that one up there. So if we do 10, five percent down and we do know stocks and bonds, right?
Jassen: Yeah. 10 Nomad Properties. But you're putting all your money into the Properties or savings. Nothing in stocks, bonds.
James: Okay. So if it's alright with you, I'm going to jump right to this Goal page and go over that one.
Jassen: Go for it.
James: Okay. So I'm basically going to add this right now. What happened? That's kind of crazy. So this is an outlier. Um, it is definitely way earlier than all the other ones. How much earlier is it? You could see it on the green line here. You hit your Goal.
Jassen: It's like a decade.
James: Yeah, it's pretty significant. So, uh, what's also interesting though is you ended up capping out you, you like as far as like your net worth goes. I bet you it's much lower net worth. I'll tell you what, we're gonna we're gonna,
Jassen: I mentioned this yesterday, but I want to mention it again. Notice that the Scenario that gets you to your retirement monthly, in your target monthly income in retirement earliest does not necessarily yield the highest net worth.
James: Yes, that's true. Sometimes your, your race to early retirement does not mean the highest net worth. It means to the best, the earliest cash flow to cover your nut.
James: Your target monthly income in retirement, and what I call your nut. Okay? So what's interesting is like the first one we did today was like, imagine this, this is the kind of Scenario I'll paint, um, you know, someone just gets out of college, they start their first job, they buy a starter home for themselves. During that first year, they meet the love of their lives, they decide they're going to move in and buy another Property together. They're going to keep the old Property as a rental, but they don't, um they don't. They don't believe in other real estate. They just kind of keep that one rental Property and they live in that same house for the next 30 years or more and they invest all of their 20 percent of their savings in stocks. That's what we just covered, the first Scenario for today,
Jassen: not an uncommon Scenario.
James: I think that's true. I think that's very common right. Now. Here's, here's version two. Someone just gets out of college. They don't believe in the stock market. They don't believe in investing in bonds. They just keep their money in savings. Okay? But they do believe in buying real estate and they, they believe in buying a Property. Living there for a year and then converting it to a rental when they buy their next one a year later. So basically there are 10 times they're buying a new house, new Property to live in, but they keep nine of them as rentals.
James: Okay? That's what we just covered. Now I'm not going to show you the Chart about how quickly, we'll cover that in a second. About how long it takes them to actually hit retirement. First, I'm going to go look at net worth, so net worth numbers with this new one, the net worth, just jump right to a month, 720, so in the year, 60, month 720. The net worth for the guy that decides to buy 10, five percent down Nomad Properties and don't do anything else in stocks or bonds, has $25,000,000 in net worth. Whereas the one that bought two Properties, one is a rental like one to live in and they invested the rest of the stocks, has $45 million, $20, million dollars more.
James: If you adjust for inflation, adjust for inflation, click the button and the difference is $7.7 million versus $4.4 million.
James: That's a huge difference. You're not. You're not getting the most net worth here. You are going to see is probably from what we've kind of seen on the Chart, you are going to probably be able to retire earliest with this model.
James: Which is super interesting.
Jassen: And and well and that that speaks to, you know, you know if a, if a financial planner or CPA or whatnot is, is reviewing this information with a client. Then begs the question, when you're, when you're talking about financial planning, is what, which is more important to you? Is it more important to you to retire as early as possible? Is it more important to you to leave a bigger nest egg to your heirs when you pass away or some combination of the two and that's how this data that these simulations can help a professional to advise a client based on what their client's different Goals are.
James: Totally. That is absolutely true.
Jassen: Like you have because you have, you have a family, you have much more interest in, um, you know, leaving a legacy and, and an inheritance than than I do. Whereas me, I'm all about doing everything I can to retire as early as I possibly can, so I never have to work another day in my life. Very different objectives.
James: Well you can leave your legacy to me if you need my social security number lemme know.
Jassen: Sounds good.
James: Here's the thing about for me is I would rather help my kids build their own legacy while I'm still alive than for me to give them a big chunk because I'd like to be around to help them through the challenges of learning how to manage Properties and stuff like that. And so for me, if you've, you read any of my stuff on the legacy Nomad, it's, it's about gifting them the five percent down payment that they would need to buy their house. Letting them live there for a year and when they're ready to buy their next house, gifting them another five percent down because I'd rather A) get the money out of my estate early, so I'm not growing it in mine, but they're also able to do it in a, uh, a much higher return on investment when you're investing only five percent down, than I would, if I'm not willing to move into Properties every year and I'm going to put 20 percent down. So there's like reasons to do this and for planning purposes and you can see now why, you know, if they have 10, five percent down, Nomad Properties, we're setting them up for early retirement.
James: They can choose, yeah, they could choose to do anything that they want to do, but they have to do something. Is my opinion, kind of like we're setting them up so they can enjoy life and retire early and enjoy things.
Jassen: And I want to add, it just so happens that at least in, in your local market, northern Colorado, the, the five percent down on a typical Property around there is if you squint real hard, it's pretty close to the $14,000 and change annual gift exclusion under, under the federal tax laws, um, that you can give to your child and that's 14 grand and change from you, 14 grand and change from, uh, your wife. So that setting up that legacy Nomad path by gifting early out of your estate is actually tax advantageous to, to you.
James: That's totally true. And for me it's, it's much lower than that for me. I don't think it really hits the 14,000, uh, when you figure it out, Tammy and I are able to do it. But the other interesting thing about it is then we're only paying tax on anything above that. So let's say it was $40,000 for the down payment that they needed, which it isn't, it's nowhere near that. But let's say it was. And so, you know, I could give 14,000 and change. Tammy can give 14,000 and change and for the remaining 12,000 or whatever it is, we could go ahead and give them $12,000 that they would have to pay taxes on. So that's totally fine. Okay, so this is a. we've talked about net worth and you could see it is not the highest net worth and you could see the growth rate of it definitely slows down compared to all the other ones.
James: In fact, if I'm looking at it correctly. It is like the third worst net worth for all of these. And and again to be crystal clear, all of these have the same assumption. Everyone's making the same amount of money yearly. Everyone's making the same amount of money monthly. Everyone is saving the same amount of money. They're saving $11,100 per month from their paycheck at the very beginning and it is increasing with inflation and we kinda gone into that in detail. So there's nothing different about these Scenarios except what they're investing in and how they're investing in.
James: All right, so that is net worth. I want to show you number of Properties owned though. So you can see how, what the differences with these? Yeah, it's crazy. Look at this Chart. The one where they're renting, they don't have any Property. So I'm going to click that one off.
James: Renting what? Stocks? Renting with stocks. So basically, oh this one buys one Property. So these are the ones where they've actually bought Properties. There's no more ones at zero. But like if you, if you look at this, all the other ones they like bought one Property bought another Property bought three Properties, the other. The next biggest one is they own three, and that's the one, three, five percent down payment owner occupant Properties, 60/40 stocks and bonds. This one though, the one that we just added, they have 10 Properties and they do it really quickly. I mean they're basically buying a Property every year.
James: So they have by the time they get to month, what is this here month 109. They've bought their 10th Property, which is crazy. So by the time they're 10 years into their path to retirement, they own 10 Properties, nine rentals and one owner occupant.
Jassen: What's a kind of interesting, you know, according to the latest National Association of Realtors data, the average person now spends 10 years, uh, in their home and in that same 10 year period, in this Scenario you've acquired 10 Properties.
James: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Using the same savings rate we were talking about before. I'm going to do this, I have turned on a total true cash flow because I think this is one of the reasons why this person's able to retire early is because the other ones that this is basically true cash flow from rental Properties after all your expenses and the ones where you're renting, you don't have those, but these ones will. What's this other stocks?
James: Okay. So these are the ones where you actually have rental income on it and you can see from the Chart that the one, the green line, the one we just added, the cash flow on it, the true cash flow is significantly increasing and it really explodes once we start paying off the loans on some of these Properties. And then it levels out once all the loans are paid off and we're seeing that. So this is what's contributing to the having them be able to retire early is the cash flow they're getting on the Properties over time. So you can kind of look at that. So do you want to jump to the Goal Chart and see how much quicker this one was?
Jassen:Let's do it.
James: So if you remember the first Scenario we did, you were able to retire in basically 30 years, 30 years and a couple of months if I remember correctly. So what difference does this make now? What do you think?
Jassen: It's close to a decade. You could see it pretty clearly there on the Chart.
James: Wow, that's crazy. Okay. So um basically, our lowest was 367, 367 months, which is 30 years and seven months. The new low. Now if you do the 10, five percent down Nomad Properties and you decide you don't like stocks and bonds, you're just going to keep your money in zero percent cash, like not earning any return. It's literally in a bank Account that earns zero for all this stuff. You basically can retire in 21 years and one month.
Jassen: So starting at the age of 22, that puts you out to age 43 to retire.
James: Yep, that's correct.
Jassen: And you know, as, as somebody that uh, did not start saving for retirement until he was. How old was I? Thirty six, 37. This is important to me because looking at, you know, I don't have 30 or 40 years, for myself to grow a stock market portfolio with, with 40 years of contributions to a 401k. I don't have that much time. It doesn't exist.
James: So this is the catch-up version.
James: Being able to catch up for retirement.
James: Yeah. So it's really interesting.
Jassen: That's why I love this path.
James: Yeah, I agree with you. One other thing I did want to look at, I'm going to pull up a Account balances because I want to show you how much cash you have. They are not earning any money with.
Jassen: I also think it's important to show early on in this process, you have a Chart that shows the negative cash flow.
James: Oh yeah. Let's look at that.
Jassen: That's worth looking at.
James: Yeah, let's do that too. So total Account balances. So this one is. Oh yeah. Your Account balance is the second lowest of all the ones you've done here and I um because you're earning basically zero percent on all that money. It's just, you know, it's, it's pretty low, but what is it at at this end month here? What is it, what's it in month 720? It is a, you still have 14 million in cash at the end,
Jassen: So probably a better Scenario to run would be the 10 Nomad Properties, but then putting that cash into various asset allocations between stocks and bonds because that's what most people are probably going to do.
James: So honestly I think we have that.
Jassen: That was supposed to be. That was supposed to be a possible segue.
James: I think it is. Well, let's see here. We got to. We still got to look at the cash flow part of it, but. Yeah. That's one where we cover. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the last one we cover. So yeah, we're going to get to that one. Maybe not today.
James: Foreshadowing. Yeah. I mean, what do you do if you buy the 10 the Nomad Properties, but any extra money you decide to invest in stocks, put it in the stock market, it'll be good there. All right, so you want to know about negative cash flow, right?
Jassen: Yeah, I think that's an important one to, uh, uh, to look at, especially during the ten year accumulation phase, um, of the Properties.
James: Yeah. Okay. So let's look at the first 10 years. All right, so here you go. This is, this is the sum of all of the cash flow period. Positive and negative on the Properties for, for each Scenario that we're running. And I'm going to turn off some of these because I don't think,
Jassen: Some of them don't have a Property.
James: Right. Uh renting with stocks, renting with stocks buy one twenty percent down. That's one of them. Got some there. That's none. Okay. So these are the ones that are leftover that have some cash flow. We've zoomed in to the first 10 years so you can kind of get a feel for where it is. You'll notice the zero line is right here. So most of the ones where we're buying them as a owner occupant where we're doing the Nomad and we're only putting five percent down, they have negative cash flow at some point because you did not put a full 20 percent down. If you had put full 20 percent down, that's the yellow line because that's buying one 20 percent down Property. And so you could see if you put 20 percent down on these Properties, they have positive cash flow.
James: And, and as an aside, if you were like, well my market, even if I put 20 percent down, doesn't have positive cash flow, good news for you. You log into The Real Estate Financial Planner™, you basically copy this Scenario to your own planner like website and then you're able to go modify the results. You basically modify the cash flow numbers on the Property and see what yours would look like. Run it for yourself. So in this case you put 20 percent down, it would have positive cash flow because we only put five percent down. We are basically financing our down payment. We have negative cash flow and the negative cash flow is basically payments on that 15 percent that we didn't put down. So how negative was it? Well, it looks like in the worst month, Jassen, probably right about here, looking at it visually right about here in the worst month we had negative $237 per month in cash flow.
James: Now think about this for a second. We're setting aside $1,100 a month invested towards saving for our retirement. So in this case, the $1,100 that we were setting aside for retirement, we're going to take $237 of that and we're going to pay negative cash flow. The rest of that, whatever it is, $860 or whatever it is we're going to take and we're going to put into a bank Account essentially. So we're able to go ahead and have that extra money set aside as reserves, but that's the worst and that's not per Property. That's the sum of all of them. All the pot. Yeah. All the positive ones. You add in all the negative ones you subtract and your leftover with a net negative of 230 something, um, for the kind of peak and that's the peak mean. There's ones that are much shorter than that, you know, this couple here that are negative, 90 negative 160 negative 170, negative 50 negative, whatever it is. And then eventually you get to the point where they become positive and from month whatever this is here month a 109 on, it looks like they're positive from then on with that particular one.
Jassen: So the question becomes then is the person that is following one of these Scenarios for five years or so, can they absorb from their, their job? Can they absorb a couple hundred dollars a month of negative cash flow?
Jassen: That becomes the question. And, and, and based on the Scenario that we're, you kind of already said this, but since we're targeting a 20 percent savings rate across all these Scenarios anyway, uh, the, the person doing this can easily absorb that negative cash flow.
James: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true because that's what we're saying. We're saying they're saving $1,100 a month, so as long as they're not going over $1,100 and even if they are going over $1,100, if they have savings that other way elsewhere, they can kind of tap into that in order to do it. It's almost like investing in their investment,
James: Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty interesting. And by the way, just to reiterate, this is with paying 10 percent for Property management, 10 percent for maintenance and a bunch of stuff for cap x because I think we included cap x in this as well. So these are like true numbers after all your expenses. So yeah. So that's kind of where we are. How are we on time? Can we put in another one here?
Jassen: We've got about 15 minutes left.
James: Yeah, let's do. Let's add one more. Um, so what was the next one that we're going to do? Let's see here. We just covered ten five percent down Nomad Properties with no stocks. The next one we're going to add is renting with stocks buy 10, 20 percent down rental Properties. So let's add that to our thing. Take a look at net worth to start with, could add renting with stocks buy 10, 20 percent down payment rental Properties. So in this Scenario we're going to rent the Property ourselves. We're not going to buy a Property for us to live in, we're going to be investing in stocks, but once we save up enough money to buy a 20 percent down rental, we're going to go ahead and buy a 20 percent down payment rental Property. And we're going to. We're going to max out where we buy 10 total. So let's make sure one other thing, I'm looking at another screen at the Rule and I'm going to see how much in cash reserves we have.
James: So the Rule for this one says we need to have $10,000 in cash reserves plus the down payment plus the closing costs before we buy our basically our next 20 percent down Property. So for this one, yeah, that's the trigger. We're basically saying, hey, in order to buy these, we want to have a little bit of cash reserves. We want to have at least $10,000 in our Account somewhere. To do this, and then were, we're capping it at a 10. So net worth wise, how does this one deal flow? It is the best networks so far. So yeah, if we look at a month, whatever this is, 720.
James: Wow. That's significant sale. So the net worth with um renting, investing in stocks, but buying 10, 20 percent down payment rentals is $63 million dollars.
James: Yeah. The next highest is that $45 million from the first one we covered today,
James: So buy 10, 20 percent down rentals, that's pretty good for us. That's a pretty good deal. Now let's take a look at that cash flow number. Before we go look at the Goal.
Jassen: I was just gonna say where, where, where's the Goal fall?
James: Well, well let's do the Goal, but first of all, let's look at cash flow. This is super interesting to me Jassen. So,
James: This one shows you the cash flow. We're getting comparing, buying 20 percent down rental Properties versus buying five percent down Nomad Properties. Right? And what's interesting to me is you would think, hey listen, you're putting 20 percent down, your cash flow should be better. Right?
Jassen: Well, I mean it's, it's gonna, you know, the Nomad version makes sense that it would lag behind a little bit, but once you, I would think that they'd even out eventually, and you can see here that they actually cross at some point that because they're not that dissimilar of a strategy once you have paid in the equivalent of the 20 percent down payment on the Nomad Properties,
James: I don't think that's. I don't think that's quite true.
James: I think what's happening here is when you buy your Properties makes a big difference. And with Nomad you're buying them like in the first 10 years with the 20 percent down oncs. I haven't looked at the Chart yet, but I think you end up waiting a while before you have enough to do it. So let's take a look at number of Properties owned and when we bought them and see the difference. Oh yeah, yeah. You can see this difference. So it's hard to see the yellow, at least it's harder for me to see the yellow, maybe I'm colorblind or something. But you could see that with the green line, you're basically buying these Nomad Properties within the first 10 years. You're like, right. One after another. You live there for a year, you buy it, you've lived there for a year, you buy lived there for you buy it and you do that 10 times. But with the 20 percent down rentals, it takes you a little while to even be able to get up to save for the first one. So you're not buying it year one.
Jassen: It's the classic thing in, in investing is, is the best time to invest as early as possible. The next best time is today.
James: That's right.
Jassen: So that you get to take advantage of time in the market.
James: Yeah. And so you don't get your last 20 percent down rental Property until month. What is this? This is a 216.
James: So that's almost 20 years in, you know, it's uh, uh, actually it's 18 years in, right? Is that right?
James: So 18 years, 18 years to acquire your 10 rental Properties, whereas it only took you 10 years to do it here.
Jassen: What is the, uh, what is the negative cash flow look like across a when you compare Nomad versus 20 percent?
James: Well, you don't have any negative cash flow with the 20 percent. They're positive from the beginning. See, total true cash flow. So the cash flow on. Let's turn off all of them except for these last two.
James: So if you look, we'll zoom in even we'll do a.
Jassen: There we go.
James: Yeah, you could see the negative cash flow on the Nomad ones. Well, we already looked at from previously. The biggest one is what? Negative $250 or something like that. So the cash flow on the 20 percent down rentals, it starts off positive. It's always positive. Because you never have a negative cash flow moment. The Nomad, ones you're negative for a little while, but you could see you catch up. There are, there are times when your cash flow from the Nomad once exceeds the cash flow from the 20 percent down ones, because your bottom so much earlier, you basically bought them at lower prices with lower rents and you let the rents kind of grow.
Jassen: Maybe a better comparison is total cash invested? Between the two?
James: Total cash invested, like total down payments?
Jassen: Um, do you have something that sums down payments plus negative cash flow to do, uh, to do a total cash put in?
James: Maybe I don't even know what I have. I'm not sure on that one. I might have that. Um, if I don't, I probably should make that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know where that would be. Don't think I've got that one. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know if I had that one. So we'll hold off on that. But the, the idea though is even with the negative cash flow here, you're able to do it sooner. So I think it makes up for it. Um, and, and that's what you're seeing there. Now let's go see because this one was renting with stocks buy 10, 20 percent down payment Properties. So the reason why your net worth is so large is you've got this additional stock component.
James: The last one, we didn't do any socks or any bonds and so that's why there was a huge difference. Let's see though, how long it takes to hit our Goal.
Jassen: Dun Dun Dun.
James: Wow. It's really close there. They're basically neck and neck. So let's go take a look at what the dates are. So. Oh, look at this. Basically doing the one we did before, 10 Nomad Properties. No stocks or bonds. You can retire in 21 years and one month when you rent and you invest in stocks, but you buy 10, 20 percent down payment, rental Properties, you can retire in 22 years. Six months. That's interesting. It's about six months slower. If you wait to do the 10, 20 percent down payment. Rental Properties,
Jassen: That's the cost of waiting to buy the rentals.
James: Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting actually.
Jassen: But the but the, the, the long term net worth is more.
James: Yeah, a lot more because you're investing in stocks and with the other one year you're basically saying, I'm earning zero return on my cash and you have a big chunk of cash.
James: The other one we should do, Jassen, we should. Um, and you know this, this is the good thing about the planner. You come up with all these Scenarios to run and be like, well, how much faster is it if we take that cash, we're not investing in stocks and bonds anyway. Why don't we just pay off the mortgages quicker?
James: Does it, does it actually get us to retirement faster or does our net worth improve? Or does it give us more cash flow in retirement? And so you can go look at that. If we decided to set the Rule because we have a special Rule that says pay off mortgages with extra cash flow and you could set the threshold, says anything above $50,000 in my Account, use any excess in order to pay off the lowest balance mortgage or the highest interest rate mortgage or whatever you want to do and then it will pay off those mortgages faster.
Jassen: Well, and in another Scenario that I want to, that I want to see now is a perpetual Nomad. And then, uh, so perpetual Nomad plus stocks plus 20 percent down.
James: So let me make sure I understand what you just said to me. You want to move every year, you want to buy a Property owner occupy it, live there for a year and then move every year. So you buy a new home to live in every single year.
James: You invest all of your extra money in stocks.
James: But as soon as you have enough for a 20 percent down payment, go ahead and buy one of those too.
James: until you max out on those. I will tell you what's going to happen to you. I mean, your, your stock part of your portfolio is going to have very little impact because you're gonna use up all the money buying the 20 percent down, so the stock one, as soon as you get like, you know, $40,000 down to $60,000 down, whatever it requires, you're going to buy another Property, so the stock part of it's not going to have a big impact.
James: You're going to end up with some ridiculous number of rental Properties because what's going to happen is you're going to have 40 rentals just from like buying the owner occupant houses over 40 years. And then all the extra cash flow you're getting from that, you're using that to buy a additional down payments for 20 percent downs. So you're probably going to get to the point where you're buying multiple, 20 percent down Properties per month,
Jassen: Per month. Do you think?
James: Yeah, because you think about this, but let's just do some really rough math. Okay. Let's say the rental, and this is crazy math, so if everyone else can hang up now, uh, we will keep this on the recording, but I'm going to freaky town. So let's say rent is $1,500 on your Nomad Properties, about one third of that historically about one third of that is expenses.
James: So when you have a free and clear Property, about a thousand dollars of that 1500 is going to be free and clear, free and clear cash flow,
James: So 30 years in you're going to have one Property that is doing the equivalent of a thousand dollars per month in cash flow and every year that you add one you're basically gonna have another thousand dollars a month in cash flow added to that. So you'll eventually get to the point where you have $10,000 a month coming in cash flow. But this happens with all of your 20 percent down Properties too.
James: So you'll, you'll get to the point where you're doing 60, a hundred, 80, 80, 8,100, $120,000 a month in cash flow. And if your expenses are $4,400 a month, which is what we said they are in this case, then all that excess is going to be available for buying additional Properties.
James: That's why you're going to be able to buy multiple ones per month.
James: But we can run those.
Jassen: Totally. And I threw it out there as, as a bit of ridiculousness. But what we're seeing is we look at the Scenarios that you have here on the screen, is it, it becomes painfully obvious. What some of the big changes you can make in your own financial planning that, that has big impact long, long term as a
James: I agree. Even small changes. I mean we're, we're talking about relatively small changes going from, you know, two rental Properties, to three rental Properties, what does that do and that, that had to be.
Jassen: Right, right. And, and, and, and also, you know what, what you're showing me here is that because basically you're showing me here that, that I don't necessarily. This is my interpretation. I don't necessarily need to be conservative as conservative in my stock bond asset allocation as I am because the real estate is my retirement vehicle anyway, and that's what's going to get me to my, my monthly, a target monthly income. The stuff that's in the stock market, um kind of just becomes bonus money,
James: although I have to think about that. In your situation in particular too.
Jassen: Oh No, I'm just saying if when you look at the yellow and green line where they cross the Goal line, it's so much farther ahead. Um, and it's, it, it, it, it does that because of the real estate, not because of the stock market portfolio.
James: Yeah. In fact the last one had no stocks or bonds. So you can, you can basically achieve a retirement in, in fact, that's the best one you could ever achieve retirement in 21 years, one month, not doing stocks or bonds at all.
James: Yeah. So that's pretty interesting. And you know, we've talked about this in a previous recording and I know we're getting close to time, so just cut me off. We need to, but I know we talked about this idea that we should be going back once we're done with this series and saying let's now program in market corrections. What happens if we see another real estate crash or what happens if rates don't increase with inflation? What if they lag inflation or what happens if we know we have negative cash flow for a much longer period of time or we have more severe negative cash flow to start with.
James: It's not break even. Kind of like in our model to begin with, what if it's like negative $100 a month or or, or. The other question then becomes, Jassen, if we're comparing, you know, basically investing in stocks, how much negative can we be so that we get the same numbers as stocks because someone would want to say, well, I can be negative $200 a month, not that I want to be, but I could be negative $200 a month and actually get to the same result as if I invest 100 percent stocks. So I think those are some interesting Scenarios to run.
Jassen: There's no shortage of changes to the assumptions, uh, changes to the number of Properties or the asset allocation. I mean, there, there's, there is no limit to the number of Scenarios we could, uh, we could run with this.
James: Totally. Yeah. And one of the things we should do at some point is also say, once we hit this, like years to retirement, like 21 years, we should actually turn off the regular income stop saving and see where we end up with that too,
Jassen: right? Like, as we're spending down the portfolio.
James: Yeah. And see which one ends up with the most money at the end and then we can, you know, run in some Monte Carlo simulations and stuff. So there's all sorts of stuff we can do. I think you're right, there's a, there's lots of recordings we should do. And, and that, you know, we probably should convert this to a full podcast honestly. Yeah, I think that there's probably enough podcast material where we could run a Scenario or two or three day, um, and uh, go for years. So.
Jassen: Agreed. Well, let's go ahead and, uh, we're, we're at the hour mark James, so let's go ahead and, uh, call it a day here. This has been some fascinating comparisons that we're, we're looking at and I look forward to, uh, continuing, uh, talking about this and the rest of the series.
James: Yeah, I agree. I think we only have one more day left because tomorrow we will do a five percent down payment owner occupant with stocks and then buy 20 buy 10, 20 percent down payment. So basically what's the difference if we do what we just did last, except we have an owner occupant Property and not rent. So just see what that does and then we're going to do renting with stocks buy 20, 20 percent down Properties like what happens if we do double what we just did here, how does that impact things? And then the last one we're going to do, which is crazy. We're going to do Nomad 10 times, but we're going to invest in stocks in the meantime.
James: So those are the last three. In the meantime, if you guys want to feel free to log into The Real Estate Financial Planner™.com, you can make a copy of any of these Scenarios that we talked about today.
James: We'll have links to them where you just click a button and it will copy the entire Scenario into your Account. Then you can just edit the ones. You don't have to rebuild these from scratch to kind of test your own stuff. You can say, Hey, I do want to play around with that, but my market is much more expensive, or cash flow numbers are different, or I'm, I'm, I'm not getting eight percent in the stock market I'm getting seven or I'm getting five or I'm getting 24. Whatever you think you're getting, you can go ahead and plug those numbers in and see how it impacts everything for you.
Jassen: I love it.
Jassen: Alright, well thanks a lot James. I appreciate this and I'll look forward to seeing you on the next one.
James: That sounds great. Appreciate it, Jassen. Thanks. Bye. Bye. For now.